Transcription (Edited for ease of reading) 

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I'm Ginny Koppenhol, a DJ and photographer from the Lancaster and Morecambe area and it's this area that I want to focus on in my latest personal project. I’m speaking to local people involved in the electronic music scene, because I want to find out what's happening at the minute. What do people view as the opportunities and challenges of starting out in a place like ours, but also nurturing that scene and how to make it sustainable?

I spoke to Stephen Grimes, Grimesy, who is a big part of the drum and bass scene in this area. He spoke about all sorts of things, from getting his first set of decks given to him by a mate, and they had slugs in because they hadn’t been used for so long, right through to recent national radio airplay for one of his tracks. He also spoke about the loss of the free party scene, which was so influential for him starting out. But he's quite hopeful about what's happening at the minute. He talks about certain local venues who are open to having different types of music on to foster a music scene in our area.

So have a listen and enjoy.

Hi, Stephen

Hello

I always start these interviews by asking people about their personal route into music. Where did it start for you? When do you remember noticing music? When did you start playing out and making your own music?

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I first started noticing my love for music in school, mainly when I was watching skateboarding videos. I was into skateboarding from an early age, maybe about year 6 or 7. The first jungle drum & bass tune I heard was on a skateboarding video – ‘Original Nuttah’ by UK Apache. I absolutely loved it. I listened to a lot of hip hop back then as well. That's when I knew that I really loved music and leaving school I wanted to start DJing.

 

So how did you get into DJing? Did you have mates with decks or did you have to get your own?

I can't remember the first time I went on some decks. It would have been quite soon after school. I first got my own decks in 2014 or something. I got given some Technics 1210s from my mate Jack Bee. They were passed down to him from another guy called Kev. They’d been used a lot on the local rave scene and they were totally in pieces - totally fucked. I took him some guy who fixed them up. He said they was the worst decks that he'd ever seen it. He said he's seen better decks in a skip before. I mean they had slugs inside them as well from parties. Some guy in Manchester fixed him up and then someone maybe let me a mixer, and then I bought some records and started learning like that. But before that, I'd gone on the digital controllers at parties and that. But I got my first decks and then I bought myself a controller and started DJing digitally on a computer. Then I was pretty much just begging local promoters to let me play at their nights.

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Actually, just to go back a little bit, what was your experience of going out at that time? Where did you hear the music?

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Locally at that sort of time, I think there was quite a lot of stuff going on in Lancaster on a small scale. We didn't have Kanteena and stuff like that back then but we had the Park Hotel pub, and there was drum and bass nights there. There was Scyence nights at the Dalton Rooms. I was obsessed with going out at that point. We were going to Manchester to Sound Control or anything with drum & bass. We used to get coaches. There was quite a lot of us from around here and we would gang up with people from Cumbria, Grange over Sands and wherever, and we'd all get mini-buses to all the raves ‘n’ that - it was good.

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My next question kind of links to that; What does club culture mean to you personally? Why is it important to have a scene at all?

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I think it's important because music brings people together, doesn't it, and everyone's music taste is different. It's about people coming together and enjoying something that they all collectively love as one whole. It's a culture, it's a movement. Whilst it was about the music, I just loved going out partying as well. It kind of goes hand in hand, doesn’t it? It was a big party scene. I was just obsessed with the music and I loved going to the shows and watching people perform, being obsessed with it and wanting to do that myself. I idolised everybody in my scene and just was like, “I want to be like that.”

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What was it about that scene, that made you want to be a part of it? What did you find out when you did start DJing out? How did it feel to be the person playing the music?

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That's a really good question as well.

Playing the music that makes me feel a certain way, out to other people and having other people feel a certain way as well. It's a really complicated question to answer, but I guess being a part of making people happy and making people dance and making people come together. Not just being someone who goes to it but playing the music and giving people something that they want to hear, is a different experience in general.

I completely agree. It’s sharing what you love, isn't it? And hoping that other people love it as well, and getting that reaction from people that appreciation and being part of that community, isn't it?

So how did you go about finding those early gigs?

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The first thing that I was doing to try and play out was just asking people that I knew. I was meeting people from going to the raves and going to the parties and then becoming friends with people and asking them until it totally pissed them off until the point where they was probably like, “ Fuck it, just put him on anyway. He's not going to shut up!”

One of my mates, Luke Rawcliffe, he's from Blackpool. He used to put on Bass Race with Gary Walker and Nathan and all them guys. Garry's from here but they all come through. I think they came here and went to university and they started putting this party on, Bass Race (I think it was on a Thursday). I used to go to them all the time and then I would just always go back to the after parties. I just became friends with them and then I pretty much just spammed them until they would let me play. Then I just started getting put on last and or first or whatever and then I just kept going and recorded mixes and sent it to people pissed everybody else off from other areas. Like “Please let me play, please let me play.” That's how you gotta do it haven't you.

You've gotta, push yourself into the scene and be like, “look, I wanna be a part of this”. You sometimes just get lucky with who you ask and then you get a name for yourself, and then it snowballs from there. You've got to ask, you've gotta do it. You've gotta put yourself out there.

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Where did the production come in? How did that progress?

 

I wanted to learn how to produce quite early on, but I didn't actually start producing until I started a job in 2016.
I went to Manchester Midi school. I think it's called something else now -  School of Electronic Music or something. I did the Introduction to Music Production and then I did another course. I think it was Advanced Music Production and Audio Engineering. When I got a decent job, I went there every Saturday for 18 months. I got a good foundation to build on. I could have done it at home and watch YouTube, but I really wanted to get somewhere and learn as fast as I possibly could from a good source. That taught me how to use Ableton and then I left there and carried on producing.

 

I was networking with people online and asking to collaborate. I learned quite a lot off other people after leaving college, just from making tunes with other people and just being like, “oh, how have you done that? How have you done this?” and then it's escalated from there really.

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This is all really helpful to people wanting to get into it, whether that's DJing or the production. Do you think production’s an essential if you want to be a DJ, or do you think you can DJ in isolation?

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I felt like at the time maybe it was. I don't really think it matters that much. I think at the time I thought maybe it would help if you made your own music, and that you'd be able to get more gigs and all this, that and the other. But I don't think it really matters. If you wanna DJ, DJ. If you wanna make music, make music. It's up to you what you wanna do and what you wanna get out of it. My view on it's completely changed. I'm quite a bit older now than I was when I started. Right now I'm happy just doing what I'm doing, making music when I wanna make music and if I get gigs, I get gigs. I'm not putting too much pressure on it really.

Have you got any particular goals with regard to the DJing or the production?

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My main goal is to make the kind of music that makes me happy. I'm not as driven as I was at the start. Like I say, everything seems to have changed quite a bit since I've got to this stage. I tend to just make music whenever I feel like making music. I could go six months without even turning my computer on, and then I could be in my computer room every day for a couple of months. It just varies. Goals? I don't know, just be happy and make music to make myself happy. That's my only goal now.

 

That said, do you want to say anything about the track that you had airplay recently on Radio 6? It’s an absolutely brilliant track.

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It's not like a goal that is set as such, but it is. It is a massive achievement that I'm really proud of and I am happy about it. I actually made the track quite a while before it got signed and played on the radio. It was about a year before, and then I sent it to one of my mates in Preston who wrote and recorded some lyrics to it. We've changed the track and stuff and then the label picked it up, Dub Shotta they’re called. Then I sent it to Mary Ann Hobbs. I got her e-mail off one of my mates, and then she just replied! I didn't expect her to reply because you send emails with your tunes to every man and their dog and it never gets picked up. It seems that no ones gonna listen to it, but she emailed me back within about 15 minutes, so I must have just hit her up while she was looking on her Gmail or whatever. She said she loved it, and then she played it. I'm happy about that. The track’s called About It and it's with a vocalist called Rakjay from Preston, released on Dub Shotta Recordings.

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Go and buy it. It’s brilliant. Leading on from there… can you tell me about one or two of your highlights so far, whether that's DJing, production or even a night out if you want?

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Playing at the local festival Highest Point was quite a ‘high point’. Just being around all my friends and everyone that we've all grown up together in the local scene. Everyone being there and everyone was playing, all of locals was all part of it, amongst loads of big names as well.  Just everyone being together and in our hometown. It was quite amazing.

Another one will probably be playing at the Beatherder Festival. Although it's not in our hometown, it's still classed as our local festival. It's only around the corner and playing there last year, that was the first time I played an actual big arena Stage at a festival. Never played anywhere that big before. That was kind of mind-blowing cause I've played quite a lot of gigs, but never anything massive. I remember that every time I looked up, I was just blown away by how many people was in front of me. I was like, “I can't actually believe that this many people are here". So that was quite cool.

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Have you ever lost the love for it?

 

More times than I care to admit, to be honest. I've had times where I've sold all my music equipment and been like “I cannot be bothered doing this anymore. I don't really see a point in it”, so yeah, plenty of times. It just happens. A lot of the times when I've done that, I've been going out and getting wrecked and partying loads. I think maybe that kinda steals your inspiration. When you're doing that and you're just tired and rough all the time from going to parties… When you've been out at the weekend and you’re older, you don't want to do anything. Then after you've left it for too long, I start asking myself “Is this even what I do anymore? I don't know. What’s all this stuff in my house? I don't need it. Get it sold and get some money.” But it always comes back again. It does go and it comes back.

I do wonder how the people who seem to make music constantly, how they keep up the momentum, I don't know. I've never had it where I've had the momentum for the that amount of time, where I can just make music and get music out every month. It's just blows my mind how people can do that. But it does come back. The love for the music is always there. It's just the desire to sort of produce and play music out just comes and goes. For me anyway.

 

A question about your creative process… Do you wait to feel inspired before you start writing, for those moments of energy, motivation, inspiration? Do you wait for something to come along and then are you quite focused on it?

 

Usually what happens is I'll do nothing, for say six months, and then I'll hear something when I'm driving around and I'm like, “Oh my God, I want to fucking make music again” and then I'll go home and I’ll get a big wave of inspiration and I'll make three, four, five tunes. I get to a point where I'm so obsessed with it that I burn myself out again and then just don't do it again for another six months. It comes in really strong waves. I think my process is to just ride the wave when it comes to me. I don't go chasing. I’ve tried to make music and try to force myself to make music when I'm not interested in it. It doesn't really work and I just tend to listen to the same loop I've made over and over again for like three hours. And I'm like, “What the fuck am I doing here? I can't do this. I'm shit. I'm not doing this”, but I just ride the wave when it comes. When it does, I just embrace it and just use as much of that inspiration as I can. Usually it goes well.

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Thank you. Yeah, more and more. I'm trying to ask about people's creative processes because I think that's really helpful to people. Everybody's got a different way of doing things.

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It's not just music as it is. You can relate in any way. You're doing this interview with me. This is your project. You're inspired to do this right now. You might do this with me and think. Fucking hell, that was boring. I'm not doing this for another two months.

I’m definitely NOT going to think that.

One of the big things I want to find out through this project is about the local area and what people view as the opportunities but also the challenges of growing up and trying to make a career, even if it's a side career, DJing and producing, and being part of the electronic music scene.

I'll start with opportunities first. In a place of this size, what do you think are the opportunities? Or what were the opportunities for you and do you think that's still the case now?

 

It's a small place, isn't it? If you don't know anyone, or if there's nothing going on at that time where you want to do something, then you've got to create your own opportunities.

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And do you think a place of this size allows you to do that?

 

I think it really depends on what's going on at the time.
Right now it's quite easy to give yourself them sort of opportunities. We've got a really good place to go and listen to music at the Kanteena and Pablo's really approachable. If you want to put music on, he will do it. The opportunity is there more than it's ever been right now because he's the guy that will just be like “Yeah, if you want to do it, we'll put it on and we'll make it happen”.

So I think right now, it's good. There's plenty of opportunity. We've got the Golden Lion letting people put nights on. There's loads of nights there, I think every weekend there's something on there. But there's definitely been times where there's been nothing at all and you're asking venues, “Can you do this?” And they just say “No. They don't want it. They don't want drum and bass. They don't want this, that and the other.” I'm pretty sure Lancaster was ‘no drum and bass allowed’ at one point. It's different right now. I feel like it's good. We've got a good thing going. We've got the Kanteena. That's the place to go for music right now. Without that place we'd be totally lost right now.

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Yeah, you've hit an important point about venue owners being open to ideas and receptive to different types of music. I think you're right that in the past it's been dictated to us at times. But at the moment there's a few places who are really open, aren't there? Have you done much promoting of your own nights?

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I've had a little bit of a go with friends of mine. I've not really lasted that long in trying to do it. I've done a couple for Pablo at Kanteena. I was involved in the JuiceBox thing right from the start, but I left that not long after. I think I did a couple of nights with them (organising wise), but I didn't think that was for me. It just stressed me out too much. I'll leave it to the other guys who know what they're doing. It's not for me. I can't handle the stress. There's a lot involved if you putting on a night. Forget about Kanteena for a second; you've got this small venue, you've got this much capacity (eg. 200 capacity)… who can you put on in a small town that will pull that crowd of all ages, because at the end of the day, you could put on a massive headliner for one type of music that only a certain amount of people will know about, and you're not going to sell the tickets for the event. In our town you've got to please everyone so you’re pulling little pockets of people from all of these age groups, to sell enough tickets. There’s a lot involved. It's quite stressful. You've got to please everybody, make sure the sound is good, make sure you can at least break even. I mean that's hard in itself, just breaking even to put a night on. The cost of artists is extortionate. Yeah it's too difficult. So to cut a long story short, it's really not for me is putting on event.

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Same.
I had to go as well. I put on a few nights with Josh Parkinson at the Park years ago and he was a pro, like he'd been doing it for years. So I piggybacked onto that really haha to try and learn a bit and see if it was for me. But similar to you, it wasn't for me. It is very stressful. I came away with a completely new appreciation for people who do events regularly.

 

Yeah, just putting on one event ages you by 10 years! I don't know how people do it. Garry and that have been putting on events for ages, and I don't know how they can be bothered to do it to be honest with you. But fair play to them boys and everyone else that puts them on in the local area. It's massive respect to everyone.

 

Absolutely, totally agree.

 

I've completely failed to mention the free party scene as well. That's died out now, but reverting back to earlier in my journey, a lot of my first gigs were illegal raves. There was loads of parties getting put on. One of my mates, Geezer, used to put on the Volume Junkies raves back in the day. They was amazing. That attracted loads of people from everywhere and they were free. You could donate. They went around with a bucket and so they could carry on and keep going. They just put a marquee up somewhere in the Lake District, maybe up Coniston Old Man, and that brought loads of people together. That's something that I think needs to come back. Whoever's got the balls to do that, put your hand up and come forward. They were amazing. But yeah, they sort of died out. Now that's another thing that I did early on, was just to pester Geez and pester all the people putting on the raves and try and get in there. They were good times though.

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What do you think prevents that free party scene from happening again?

 

It's hard to say. Some of the people that were putting them on, they're all a bit older and they've got more responsibility and maybe just feel like it's not worth it anymore. The police do come to them and maybe that's why. I don't really know, to be honest. It sort of just died out. I think even before my time, the rave scene and the outdoor party scene around here was absolutely massive. When I started going to them they were still big, maybe 100 or 200 people, 250 people would turn up to them. Back in the day you're talking about warehouses and fields full of people, but then they sort of just died out.

It still seems like down South, there’s stuff happening. I think Bristol do loads of stuff like that. But up here, it's dead. The last time I went to a rave like that, I will have probably been about 20 or something like that. It was years ago. I've been to a rave at Miller Ground by Lake Windermere. It was in the forest, right up next to the lake side. It was like 10 in the morning. Everyone was on ecstasy and the Lake warden came along in his speed boat, down the jetty and he's like “we can hear your music from across the lake. Can you just turn it down?” And he's like, “Make sure you tidy up”. They were kind of supportive. The dog walkers were stopping and talking to everybody. Some people loved it, some hated it. A lot of people was just a bit fascinated and were like “what is going on here?” I've been to quite a few and the police have come in 9 out of 10 times. They do just tend to say tidy up and don't leave any sort of mess.

 

If I'm right, you’re saying there are all different levels to the scene, or there was at one time and ways to get into it, ways to build community. So any other challenges at the minute?

 

The main challenge that people face nationwide is the cost of everything. I can't really think of any other challenges because like I said earlier, we've got people willing to give you their venues to put nights on. That's not a challenge. The challenge is if you want to keep the parties going, you need to actually make money because you need to book headliners and that's the challenge, isn't it? You've got the cost of the venues, the cost of the artists and then you've got to put the ticket prices at a certain price.

People turn their nose up at how much stuff costs, but then it's like well, “The fucking DJs cost £1500” You know what I mean? Keeping the parties going, keeping the night going, having a consistent night. You could put one decent night on, but if you want to keep that brand going, it's really difficult. If you put all your effort in and months and months of promotion and then you break even or take a loss, you're just going to be so deflated. I think that that's the big challenge, isn't it? It's just the price and cost of everything. Everything in life is expensive now.

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There's some really good points. Thank you.

So we talked about one of the good things is having venues open to putting things on and perhaps in a smaller place you can make links and make relationships with those people. Anything else that is positive or a potential opportunity?

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For me, if I lived in Manchester, I could be surrounded by people who were producing drum and bass, jungle music, and we was jamming all the time and you're around at the house anyway because you either having a party or you're having tea or whatever. If you're surrounded by it, you're going to be doing it more. I know this doesn't answer your question…
This place doesn't lack musical talent by any means. There's so much talent in our town, but for my scene, there's only a few people that do this sort of thing. You're not surrounded by people doing the same thing. There's lots of people doing their own thing and doing things that are good at it, but you're not surrounded by it, forcing you to do it. So, you make music in isolation a bit more and then that gets in your head and you're thinking that you're not really enjoying it. If I lived somewhere bigger like say Manchester which is a big drum bass scene, then maybe I would be doing it more.

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Yeah, when you make those connections, creative projects come from that don't they? You mentioned before about making connections online with people, particularly around your production. How useful has that been?

 

The most important thing is networking and reaching out to people. It is more difficult online, although I don't know because I can't compare it really. Like I say, I don't live in the big places that you are surrounded by these people. But it's really important to try and reach out to people, maybe that are at your level and collaborate with people. You can share different ideas and see how other people work and learn from them and teach them stuff. Where I've learned the most in my journey is from other people. It's certainly not from sitting on my own and not talking to anyone. It reaching out to people, messaging people, asking “Do you like this? Can I listen to what you're doing?” and maybe making music together. That's important.

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It's a supportive scene, isn't it, that we're in. I think everybody wants to help each other. What other advice would you have for people wanting to get into it, particularly the drum and bass scene?

 

The main thing is just be yourself and don't try it to be anybody else. You need to be true to yourself and do it for the right reasons. Do it because you love it and do it because you want to do it. Don't do it for any other reason. Just do it for yourself and if you put all of your love and care into doing that, and that's what you want to do, then that's what will show eventually.

And what do you think about the dance scene? Or maybe the drum and bass scene at the minute? Is it a healthy scene?

I think it's massive! It's everywhere now. It's not just an underground thing, everybody likes it. Everybody listens to it. It's on the radio, it's on mainstream radios, it's everywhere. I think it's only going to continue to grow.

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And is that a positive thing, do you think?

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I think it is positive although that's a difficult question. It depends. There's a lot of different opinions. Personally, I think it's positive because the more people that are that are interested in it, the better. You're probably gonna get people saying stuff like, “ohh it's too commercial and whatever which is true in a lot of ways. It has become commercialised but you don't have to listen to the music that you don't want to listen to. So you could say “Oh my God it's so commercial. It's not good anymore” but there's still good music out there. You just listen to that. You don't have to listen to what's getting put in front of you, do you? You could say that about anything. I think it's only a positive that it's as big as it is now.

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Bringing it back locally…
What do you think we need to keep the scene going in years to come? Is there anything that could be different?

 

The main thing is to keep this community vibe that we've got going. Going back to Kanteena again, it’s having somewhere like that where everybody's accepted everyone's welcome, somewhere where everyone feels a part of and a safe space for everybody. That's the most important thing.  Without somewhere like that, you're gonna lose it. You know what I mean? So that's the most important thing. The community is there and that's what we need.

 

That's a good place to end, I think.
How can people find out more about you and your music?

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Just catch me when I'm riding a wave of inspiration, I guess!
Social media, on Instagram @grimesydnb
or Spotify (Grimesy on there).
Listen to my music on SoundCloud as well. I guess that's it.

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And come to a gig.

 

If I get any, yeah. If I'm lucky enough to be booked, come to a gig.

Brilliant.
Thank you so much.