Transcript (edited for ease of reading) 

 

Hi, I'm Ginny Koppenhol. I'm a portrait photographer and DJ and as part of a personal project, I'm meeting with people involved in a local electronic music scene in the Lancaster and Morecambe area. I want to find out about the current opportunities and challenges of living somewhere like ours, and a scene that’s been up and down over the years. I also ask out about their personal stories; what led them into music, their favourite things about the scene, their favourite gigs. Somebody who I didn't know very well before was Charlie Brown, who was introduced to me by a mutual friend. I knew of her act, Shelectro and had seen lots of clips of her fantastic performances and heard her great music. Check her out on Bandcamp SoundCloud.
I was really keen to talk to Charlie because I didn't know much about her journey.
Turns out she's come from Manchester to Lancaster, which is the opposite way around to a lot of people who are looking to do more with music but even prior to coming to Lancaster, she'd done so many different things. I was fascinated to find out about all the different things she is doing and has experienced, from making her own music, to going to college, the community projects she's been involved in. It's such a passion of hers to help other people develop in their musical journeys, particularly women who are underrepresented within the music scene and some of the initiatives she’s started. She’s on advisory boards considering these issues and some of the barriers that we tackle. There are so many layers to Charlie's story and that’s showing no signs of stopping with her many ideas she wants to implement.

I hope you enjoy finding out about Charlie's story as much as I did and do go and see her perform. Whether it's her electronic act or her singing group, or one of the groups she's involved with supporting, there's lots of options. She’s such a creative person! Enjoy the interview.

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Hey, Charlie, I'd like to start by asking you about your music and your sound. How would you describe it, and how you make it?

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My current style of music that I produce is mainly house and disco house. I also sing as part of my Shelectro project, which is a crossover between disco house, a bit of electro pop - a smush between all of those genres. I'm quite hard to pin down sometimes I think so I jump from one thing to another. But regardless, all of the tracks that I produce are always within that realm.

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How do you produce your music?

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I've used the Logic Pro software for well over 20 years now, but only really since lockdown have I really started concentrating on producing for myself, getting back on to Logic and really exploring some of the more recent developments within the software.

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How did you get into it? What is your musical story?

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My musical story, as with most people probably, started when I was really young. I come from a really musical family. There was always music playing from a really young age, about 5 or 6 years old. I started singing with the local choir and I did that for many years, until I was a teenager. When I was leaving secondary school, I got a scholarship to the Royal Northern College of Music and I went to the Junior School there for two years training to be an opera singer, which was an absolutely fantastic experience. But I left the classical music field behind quite quickly after leaving there. It was a brilliant opportunity though, because I got to work with some amazing teachers. I got a really good grounding in music theory, oral skills, singing with lots of other really talented singers. It really opened my eyes to different opportunities and organisations in Manchester that were doing music stuff. I still have to pinch myself sometimes, that I actually went there for two years. I went from the age of 15 to about 17, then made a conscious decision not to apply to go there for university. While I loved being there, the friends that I made and the things that I was learning, I found the atmosphere and the field of classical music was like a straight jacket. I was training to be an opera singer and all of the classical opera stories are very heteronormative. The women always die by the end of it. You have to wear a big frilly dress. The rules for the whole opera scene are rigid, but also the rules of classical music that I was being introduced to, are also quite rigid. It's not necessarily something that was gelling very well with the music that I was listening to and enjoying away from my time at the royal Northern.

Going back a few years previous to that, me and my brother found Stu Allan's Hardcore House Hour on Key 103 in Manchester. When I was about 13, I wasn't really listening to pop music or any other kind of music other than what my mum and dad were introducing me to at the time. But I heard ‘Charly’ by The Prodigy on Top of the Pops, then my brother and I found the Hardcore House Hour which we used to record each Saturday night at 1 in the morning. We used to record it, then listen to it throughout the week and then record the next show. So I went to the Royal Northern having found dance music at a quite a young age. I was obviously far too young to be going out clubbing or being actively involved with the rave scene, but I'd found the Manchester music scene in a really convoluted kind of way. That was my music. I didn't really listen to anything else. I got to the Royal Northern and it was the clash of those two different styles, different worlds of music that collided. It was that clash of worlds that meant that I didn't feel that going to the Royal Northern for me as a university was the right choice.

So when it came to looking at what I was gonna do next after finishing sixth form college, I decided to do contemporary music and drama at university. That took me on to my next stage.

I went to Manchester Met and studied Creative Arts. It was actually on a little campus, that not many people have heard of, called Alsagar. It was in the middle of the Cheshire countryside in the middle of nowhere. At the time they ran a contemporary music and performance degree courses that set me off on a on a different path when I got there. It actually was nothing to do with the course itself. The music I learnt on the course was very ‘John Cage’ experimental contemporary music, which again I didn't gel with very well. But what I did do in my first year at university, was meet a really cool group of people and one of the first things that I spent my first student loan payment on was some decks. I got taught how to DJ by a few people in this crew at university. Then throughout the three years we went on to run all of the student events on campus. There was nothing surrounding the campus, so it's not like you could even get a minibus to Stoke-on-Trent as it was 40 minutes away. There was literally nothing close by.

So I got involved with running student events, getting involved with DJs and running the regular club nights that were on the actual campus itself. So that's what kept me at university. As I say, I didn't really gel with the content of the course itself because I was being introduced to all of this new amazing dance music, having a good time with the group of friends that I'd made. That was enough to keep me at university and I'm very aware of how lucky I was to be able to have that choice, because I was in the last year that qualified for a grant. I had a small student loan, but nothing in comparison to the amount of debt that students get themselves into these days. I had a really good time at university. I didn't do very well overall in the course itself, I scraped through a pass, but all of the experiences of organising the club nights, DJing and starting to write dance music at university, I took all of those skills with me and that's the key thing that I took from those few years, that then bounced onto the next thing.

I finished university and moved back to Stockport with my parents. I had a really low pass on the Creative Arts degree and no idea what to do next.

Then two things happened...

My mum told me about a music project that was being run for young people locally at a recording studios, which is unfortunately no longer there. The music project was called Stomp (AKA the Stockport Music Project) and the recording studio was Moolah Rouge. I started volunteering there on a Saturday. They had a cool group of musicians that were working with young people and giving them access to music opportunities. They had ‘band in a day’ rock school kind of things, DJing, song writing, just lots of really cool experiences for these 11 to 16 year olds.

At the same time, I went into the local job centre because I was unemployed to sign on. I didn't actually end up signing on because when the person at the job centre heard that I had a degree, they were like, “oh, there's some jobs going here”. I was like “I've never been in a job centre before!” I didn't really have a clue what I was doing or what went on there, but this woman said to me, “Why don't why don't you apply?” So I did, and I got the job.
The following month I was on the ‘new claims’ reception, working with other people that were coming to sign on to job seekers allowance. I carried on my volunteering at Stomp and the two guys that ran Stockport Music Project both gave up their capacity of running it because one of them just couldn't do it anymore. The other one fell ill. So I ended up being the project manager. It was only on a Saturday but it was a music charity within its own right and I found myself being the project manager. I was offered youth work training alongside it from the local volunteer bureau. I was provided with lots of training, help and support to keep me in that position and to keep the project running. I got my first youth work qualification and just carried on working on the project, because as well as getting experience working with young people, there was loads of cool musicians that were coming through because it was a proper professional recording studio.
The guys that ran the studio used to organise master classes for the kids. We ended up singing on two tracks of a Badly Drawn Boy album. The Ting Tings were in and out of there. Sean Ryder and lots of other Manchester musicians used it. There was lots of people coming through all the time and it was just a really cool, vibrant place to be involved with. For me it was great because I made lots of really cool contacts.

I decided to leave the job centre because by this point I had all of this experience of running this music charity and got my youth work qualification. I ended up working for the local youth service as a proper youth worker. I was there full time for about 18 months and again got to work with lots of really cool, inspirational people. I ran lots of music sessions because I was getting quite good at running creative sessions for young people. It was great.

I decided to leave the youth service because the contract that I was on was temporary. It went full circle because the job that I did next, I ended up being an advisor on the New Deal for musicians course. So it was back on to DWP with people that were signing on to job seekers allowance, but on a nationwide basis with unemployed musicians who were signing on, or who were looking for advice and support with their music, so it was again really creative. They had a cool office right in the centre of Manchester. I used to speak to people from all over the country and just generally try and help and support people to get into work, whether that was music related or other work to fund the music in the short term. That was another really cool few years getting more and more involved with music.

At that time, the band that I was in with my brother, were starting to get decent gigs in Manchester as well. I played synth and bass guitar in an electro pop outfit. We got some pretty good gigs; supported The Ting Tings and played some quite cool places.

I loved working on the new deal for musicians course, but all good things have to come to an end don't they. When the government changed from the Labour government to the Conservative government, they scrapped the New Deal overnight and turned it into a different programme. I couldn't carry on working on this new scheme. I felt really afflicted because the New Deal for musicians course really worked. We used to get over 50% of the people on our course into work within 13 weeks and we only saw them once or fortnight, you know? So it was really working and then it wasn't because they changed it. I decided that I wasn't gonna work there anymore and I left music for quite a long time.

Me and my brother stopped playing in the band for one reason or another, and I ended up working for the local fire service back to my youth work background running and managing the local Princes Trust Programme. I did that for eight years in Manchester and then when I moved to Lancaster, I was able to transfer my job for the fire service over here in Lancaster and Morecambe for about eight years as well.

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Thank you for going through that. I love how so much of it has evolved organically. You've met people, you've connected, you've created community, you've been part of community, and one things led to another, and it sounds like you've had really interesting and varied experiences that have involved music for a big chunk of that, which is fantastic.
I'm really interested to hear about you starting in classical music, but that you had a love of those early rave tunes as well.

You said that you left music behind for a little while. So what brought you back? What's reconnected you?

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What's brought me back to music really is moving to Lancaster. So going back nearly 10 years ago now, my now partner and I had a mutual friend that I met when I was studying my second youth work qualification in Manchester, who was up doing a PhD at Lancaster University. She was involved with the Queer Boots Nights that has been running for many years round here. She asked me to come up and DJ even though I hadn't done that much DJing for quite a while. At that point I thought, “well, yeah, why not? OK, we'll go up to Lancaster. Never been to Lancaster.” I  came up here DJd at Queer Boots a few times, and on the last time I actually met my now partner through this mutual friend. As soon as Lancaster was on my horizon, my involvement with music just snowballed from there.

I'd lived here for a year or so, and I was spending a little bit of time on Logic (the music software) starting to get more into music production. Then a few friends and my partner were together one night and we decided to start doing some singing. At first it was just a bit of karaoke with a glass of wine or whatever, but as time has gone on, we thought “no, we can do this properly”.
So it's now the Over and Out group that I run. There's four of us in it now and we do pop music and dance music, mash ups and covers, but all original versions. I produce original backing tracks on Logic and then we sing our own versions of these songs on top of it. We did that for maybe a year before we ventured out into public. We did our first gig about four weeks before we went into lockdown during COVID. We'd dipped our toe in at that point. Then like many people, I found myself with all of this extra time while in lockdown, so I spent time refining my skills in Logic and watched lots of tutorials on the internet. I really focused on improving my music production skills and actually finished some songs. I thought “ohh I've finished some songs I might as well try and do something with them”. I came up with the name Sheletro. I think it was in 2021 I released my first single and then my EP as Shelectro. Everything else from then has then kind of continued to snowball for me.

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So are you still in the group as well?

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Yeah, we've done quite a lot of gigs locally now, singing in pubs and up at the Gregson Centre. We've got quite a lot of songs together now that we can do. If someone asks us to do something that's a little bit more low-key, we can do something that's a bit more subdued. But then we've got some bangers in there as well that we can pull out if it's more of a festival or club vibe.

 

And are you doing much DJing as well? Or the live electronic performances?

 

I actually did DJ last weekend at The Royal which is the first time that I've DJd in a year. I had so much fun doing it! Other than that, no DJing. It's not necessarily something that I was seeking out to do. I was just asked if I wanted to do it and I thought, “yeah, why not. Let's have a listen to some nice new disco house and put a set together.” So that was great. Since I went freelance two 1/2 years ago, the live music performances have fallen by the wayside a little bit because of my paid work. I'm not complaining about this, but I've been so busy recently.
I never could have imagined that when I'd made the decision to go freelance that I was going to be kept busy in the way that I have for the last six months. But now we're going into the summer, I've started crossing out some days in my diary. I've worked really hard on lots of different projects and for lots of other people over the last six months, and it's my time to get back on with my music writing and get out and do some performing again. So that's what I'm looking forward to.

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And your freelance work is music related?

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My freelance work is mainly music-related. I do work on a project at the Dukes Theatre coordinating a drama group. On top of that I run a choir at the Gregson Centre for people with lung health conditions. I work at More Music on a Wednesday, running their singing out group which is for 11 to 18 year olds. This is for young people that might be struggling a little bit with social anxiety and it's a really inclusive, supportive group and we also do some brilliant singing as well which is lovely. I'm also running the Preston ‘Big Sing’ events, so I'm going around lots of different primary schools two or three times a week, making sure that the kids are all learning these songs. Then in June I've got four festival days where we get 400 kids along all at once and we sing for an hour. We all sing the same songs that they've spent a few months learning and hopefully we'll have a lovely time.

Wow, you are busy!
You're right that sometimes you do have to just cross out those days and redress that balance and get back to some of your personal projects. That sounds brilliant though, and so much overlap, which I love. It sounds like you've got a really varied programme of things that you do.

I noticed on one of your profile descriptions that you said a big driver for you is “redressing balance in the industry”. Could you tell me a bit more about that?

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Yes definitely. Trying to encourage young women to get more involved in music is definitely one of my passion areas. For the last couple of years, I've also been on the staff team of the Girls Can! projects at More Music, working with Rachel Parsons. We try to encourage more young women to get into the music industry and especially on the technical side; DJing and music production, setting up kind of the sound system, that kind of stuff. I've had lots of experiences throughout the last 20 years where I have been made to feel like I shouldn't have been there. I've been physically pushed out of the way by a male DJ a few years ago, and I could recount lots of things that have happened to me where I've just been really conscious of the dance music scene being massively male heavy. Last time I looked, 8% of music producers are female or non-binary. It is shifting a little bit, but there's still a long way to go. When you look at mastering engineers, it's 2%. It’s massively male-dominated. Anything that I can do to try and redress that balance I do. It's the reason why I chose the name ‘Shelecto’ for my own music. Especially in a lot of the initial singles that I wrote, the words in my songs are normally about some kind of issue-based subject matter. Even though it might sound like it's a boppy disco house track, the lyrics very often have got some kind of important meaning, so that's why I decided that that's gonna be my name.

I'm also an adviser for Youth Music. On a national basis, I look at various different funding applications that are put into the Youth Music scheme and try and use my position as an adviser, to prioritise music projects nationwide that are going to allow underrepresented groups to have experiences. It’s not just specifically about young women and non-binary young people but just anything really. There's always a lot of competition, and lots of really amazing projects out there. The ones that always catch my eye or the ones that I'm most likely to say, “oh, they're the ones that I'm really passionate for you to support” are the ones that are looking to readdress the imbalances that we find in the music industry. So yeah, behind the scenes I'm trying to chip away.

 

What do you think / know that some of those barriers are down to?

 

One of the main things for me is the lack of representation. There's that saying isn't there, that ‘you can't be what you can't see’. That's one thing. It does seem to be changing ever so slightly, but actually having positive role models that you can look up to as a young woman who wants to be say for example, a dance music producer who can say, “oh, I've just seen them do their live performance or I've just seen them doing their DJ set and that's what I want to do”. Young men are inundated with those positive (or mainly positive) role models that they can look up to and aspire to be like, and that’s their expectation. Gender expectations - it's still really prevalent, even in primary schools. If a little boy and little girl say that they're interested in doing music, the little boy is more likely to be offered to do drums or guitar. The girl might be offered to play the flute, and don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing playing the flute, but it's those things that are still very much ingrained in society and the music industry. So they're definitely two big things.

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I got into DJing because I saw a woman DJing Ibiza. I hadn't really considered DJing before, and I went with my friends on holiday. They weren’t into dance music, but I made them go to one club as we were in Ibiza. I dragged them along to Eden and Lisa Lashes was playing. I was just in awe. Hard house isn't even really my thing but seeing her up there was inspiring. The next morning, I was like, “I wanna do that!”. So I’m testament to the value of seeing a woman up there doing what she loved and being so passionate about it.

So when you came to Lancaster what were your first impressions?

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The first thing that struck me about the music scene in Lancaster is how relatively inclusive it is. Lots of people are involved with the music scene and everybody seems to be really supportive of each other. I'd come from Manchester where it's ‘pay to play’. The promoters had very tight fists on what was going on. If you weren't in the right scene in the right crowd, friends with the right person, unless you could sell 200 tickets, you weren't gonna get anywhere. They preferred certain types of music over others. Again, if you didn't fit in with what they were looking for, you wouldn't get a look in.

When I came to Lancaster I remember walking around and just seeing the amount of places that have live music on, not necessarily electronic music, but in general, the amount of different people that were playing, and how nice and supportive everybody was of each other. Everybody seemed genuinely like, “oh, that was really good,” even when it perhaps wasn't. Although saying that, a lot of the music that I have seen locally is of a very high standard. But that seemed to be the overriding thing, that everybody was just nice and supportive towards each other. I think that's probably indicative of it being a smaller community anyway. Lots of people know each other around here, and that's lovely. It's still relatively new for me, coming into a place where you walk down the street and see lots of people that you know. Walking through the streets of Manchester, you’d be completely anonymous because you don't see anybody that you know while you're there. Obviously, the music scene’s born out of the community.
I know right now is not a great time for live events for a whole variety of different reasons, and lots of big festivals around here are not running or are being scaled down, but at the time there was a lot going on and it was brilliant. Really very different for me because again, I was coming from a dance music background and then coming to the general Lancaster music scene, which is still not very electronic music-focused. There is a lot of classic rock, folk, jazz, which is wonderful. Lots of genres of music going on all the time, simultaneously, which is amazing. There are little snippets of electronic music but I'd like to see more. But that's similar to Manchester. Apart from DJ-based clubs nights, there weren't that many live electronic music nights happening in Manchester at the time, and I suppose that's something that I'd like to see more of I think. 

You've touched beautifully on some of the opportunities and the challenges. So I just wondered if you wanted to expand on either of those? If we start with the opportunities…

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There are lots of opportunities to further develop the electronic music scene around here. Just recently, myself and a friend Helen Longworth, have started putting some feelers out because we're interested in setting up a women's music collective which is going to be Lancaster-based but covering all the surrounding area. While I'm not going to force it down the electronic music route, I am hoping that some people might come out of the woodwork that are interested in perhaps exploring the more electronic side of music. Going back to the general music scene in Lancaster, it is very male dominated. You go around all the pubs and venues and there might be, I don't like using this word, a token woman singing. I'm sorry, I've just said that, but yeah. Then you've got four or five blokes playing the instruments and I would like to see that changing by encouraging other people to have a go at DJing, have a go on a synthesiser. I've spent a little bit of time mentoring a couple of women that I know locally, in how to use Logic so they're now up and running using the software themselves. I’m trying to grow the knowledge and skills in the area to hopefully spark some interest, so that people then go off and start doing their own things as well.

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What do you think some of the challenges for the electronic music scene in our small corner of the UK?

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One of the main challenges… there just seems to be a preference locally to live, non-electronic music, which in one sense is wonderful. You know lots of people around here seem to really enjoy bands, seem to enjoy groups, folk music, which is wonderful. Obviously, there are people around here that also like electronic music, but it seems like very often it's kind of squeezed in a little bit. When the venues or pubs are looking who to programme, they seem to fall back onto who they know is gonna pull a big crowd. They've got to earn money, so I'm not saying that they shouldn't do that. It would just be nice sometimes to see a little bit more of a risk being taken with the programming.

I definitely recognise that in the last couple of years, the Lancaster Music Festival organisers, especially with the programming of their stages, worked really hard to try and make sure that there was an equal gender balance. They had to work very hard to find the acts that they could actually programme. They got out-of-town acts to come as well. So there's a pipeline problem I think, which is why I'm trying to set up the women's music collective. You can't programme acts if they're not there. But then getting people out to support the acts as well. So there's a big push needed for some good promotion.

The work that Dave Shooter does with Hymns for Robots is wonderful. I played there a couple of years ago at one of the bigger events that they put on at the Storey, and that was probably Shelectro-wise, one of the best gigs that I've done. It's a good venue, nice sound system.
Actually, I think that's something else worth mentioning. A lot of the venues that put on live music / electronic music around here are also quite male-dominated. Some of my friends have spoken about this recently but the crowds out on a Saturday night, are very male-heavy.

So it's a smush of all of those different things. I don't want to mention any of the venues by name because in their own ways they're doing lots of great stuff for keeping music live and keeping things on. But as a woman performer, when you go along somewhere and you are performing outside the men's toilets or the facilities aren't very nice, or you go in there and there's a vibe and you don't feel safe or welcomed, these are all big problems specifically for women.

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So what do we need to do as a scene? You've started to mention some things that you think would help. You've mentioned the potential of a collective, and the pipeline issues and some potential solutions. You've mentioned the mentoring that you do, and your work with local organisations and being on the advisory boards of wider organisations, which will hopefully trickle down to local scenes. Anything else that we need to do?

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I think it would be great to have a big electronic music festival, but make it family-friendly. Make so it's not just people going out getting wasted on a Saturday night. That’s also to do with electronic music, and a lot of people have that perception of the scene but it doesn't have to be like that. It would be nice to see electronic music being programmed onto the bigger stages of festivals so that it has got a bigger presence and like I say, if we could have a big family-friendly during the day electronic music festival which showcases the best of the local area, but also brings other people in from out of the area to showcase what they're doing.

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You mentioned the Hymns for Robots gig being a local highlight. Any other local highlight gigs or musical experiences?

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I've really enjoyed when I played Shelectro over at More Music as well. I think there's a lot to be said about playing in nice venues with good equipment, which More Music definitely is. I wish Lancaster did have more performance spaces with good setups. It's just good to know that you've got a sound engineer that's doing the sound for you, so you're not having to sing, play, keep an eye on your tech. As a solo performer that uses a lot of equipment, it can get quite overwhelming, so using the nice space and the nice stage at More Music has also been a really good highlight. All the work that I've done over at More Music has been a really nice musical highlight for me. Working again with young people on music, it's been musically challenging for me. They keep your musical knowledge fresh as well, and being flexible enough with the music that you want to introduce them to, but also allowing them the freedom and expression to try things out for themselves. Now I work regularly for More Music, that's definitely one of my own musical highlights.

And what's next for you?

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Moving forward, one thing that I definitely do need to do is be quite strict with myself. I tend to bounce from one thing to another. With my Shelectro project, I have got a new EP that's nearly ready. I've been quite focused on choosing which songs to work on and finish them, because otherwise I just end up starting songs and not finishing them. I've also started working on a live looping set as well. Watch out for that. I'm going to be doing covers of electro-pop songs as well as live looping versions of my own Shelectro project. I've decided that my Shelectro project (my solo project) is just going to be become a recorded project that I release songs. I might DJ them out live or get other people to play them, but it’s perhaps not as engaging on a live basis as it could be, you know, one person stood very still playing sing singing. So my live looping is definitely something that I'm going to be pushing a little bit more and also maybe putting some kind of electronic live outfit together, ideally with other female musicians. Putting together a really decent live electronic outfit that can go out and play gigs locally, that's definitely something that I'm looking to do. Like I said at the at the beginning of the interview, I have been quite strict with myself now to map out some time to actually allow this to happen rather than just being taken over by the paid work. I've carved out the space and I've got those three priorities and I just need to be really strict with myself and not allow myself to get pulled off in ten other directions.

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What do you love about electronic music as opposed to other types of music performance and why do you think it’s important to have a scene?

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One of the things that I've always loved about electronic music is the variety of sounds. When you start with a blank screen, it can literally take you anywhere. Even from a really early age it just appealed to me, the different synthesiser sounds that you can get. A lot of the dance music that I listen to is quite fast and upbeat and I really enjoy listening to uplifting, positive music with all of these weird and wonderful sounds in it. So for me, that's why I'm more drawn to electronic music than perhaps any other genre.
I think it's important to have an electronic music scene because it is a massive part of music. Worldwide, electronic music is one of the biggest genres of music so it's important that we have stuff locally so it reflects what's going on a nationwide and international basis, but also to encourage other people to listen to it more and to get involved with it on a local basis as well. It's about having that visibility and having a piece of the pie.

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Where can people find you online or in real life?

My Shelectro project is on all of the usual streaming platforms and SoundCloud. When I remember to keep it up to date. As I say, I've got some new stuff hopefully coming out soon so you can check that out and you can find me generally in and about Lancaster.
I've developed a little bit of a golden triangle. I live in the centre of Lancaster. I work in several of the businesses and organisations that are quite close to the centre of Lancaster as well, so I'm normally kind of concentrated quite closely in and around Lancaster. So yeah, that's generally where I am.

I think there are so many things there that people will find really interesting. Thank you so much for your time.